Mosstone "Sun King" Strat

[Mossman]

Started this project last fall, but it got put on the back-burner for a while (not unusual for any of my builds). My birthday and Christmas were coming up, and having realized that I actually liked Strats, I thought I might get a Fender Player "Plus-top" Strat as a holiday gift to myself.

fender-aged-cherry-burst.jpg

I'm kind of over flamed/figured tops, but I always liked the aged cherry sunburst finish. However, since I've been building guitars and having fun working with dyes and stains, my GAS frequently transforms into build plans... I came across this alder Strat body with some really nice grain and it was "game on".

strat body unfinished.jpg

I ordered the body and some Angelus dyes (the same dyes I used for the "Eclipse") in the colors I thought would accomplish a similar burst. My goal wasn't to exactly duplicate the finish, but to achieve something in that neighborhood.

I started by dyeing the whole body amber:

strat amber dye.jpg

Then added some straight "red" around the edges:

strat amber red dye.JPG

Spread it out more into the interior:

strat amber red dye 2.JPG

[Mossman]

Then I added some "Oxblood". I didn't want to go completely black around the edges, but I wanted to go a little darker on the perimeter than the Fender burst:

strat amber red ox dye.JPG

Then after much blending....

strat burst dye finish.jpg

strat dye burst 2.jpg

nstrat dye lower bout.JPG

nstrat dye upper horn.JPG

[Mossman]

nstrat dye lower horn.JPG

And a mock-up with the hardware and pickguard:

strat finish mock up.jpg

The pickups are made by "USA Custom". I bought them on ebay for the Fuscia Rose Strat project, but the string spacing was all wrong on the 24.75" scale guitar, so I figured I'd use them for this. I've never heard of these pickups before, and I have no idea what they sound like, but I liked the specs, and they didn't cost a lot, so I took a chance on them.


I'm really over the moon about the way this burst came out. It's really hard to know when to quit when you're doing the blending, but I think I exercised an adequate amount of self-restraint.

Around Christmas time, I got a good deal on a Fender Player Strat neck from the Stratosphere with the (now) undesirable Pau Ferro fretboard. I actually like Pau Ferro. There was a time (before CITES) when Pau Ferro was considered an exotic tonewood, and was often used by boutique guitar and bass luthiers, but since it's been used as a rosewood replacement, everyone now assumes that it's a crap wood. I think this fretboard will compliment the burst better than rosewood.

fender neck.JPG

Now I have a conundrum... When I bought this neck, I was planning to use it "as is", and looked forward to not having to refinish it, or reshape the headstock or anything, but I'm so happy about the way the burst came out, I don't want people thinking this is a mere Fender guitar! I've found myself refering to this guitar as the "Sun King", partly inspired by the finish, and partly as an homage to the Beatles. But I'm still not convinced I want to go through all the work to put that on the headstock!

[bleys21]

Damn, that looks awesome. I've never really seen the process before, adding the colors one by one. A novice question, if you don't mind: how do you go about doing the blending? Its an amazing transition between the pre-blend and post-blend pics, and I'm just curious as to how you do it.

[Mossman]

Damn, that looks awesome. I've never really seen the process before, adding the colors one by one. A novice question, if you don't mind: how do you go about doing the blending? Its an amazing transition between the pre-blend and post-blend pics, and I'm just curious as to how you do it.

Thanks!

It's a little like working with water colors, except lighter dyes will affect darker dyes. With water colors, if you go too dark there's no coming back from that, but with this dye, if you find that things are getting too dark, or too orange, or red, blending in some amber will lighten it up. That's one of the saving graces of this stuff. You can also sand it back, or pull some color up with a rag soaked with alcohol (or water, depending on how you're diluting it), if things get out of control. Fortunately, I didn't have to do that with this body, but I did do both when I did the burst on the "Eclipse".

It's basically just overlaping colors from light to dark to light again until you get a good balance. I use a wadded up square of cotton T-shirt as an applicator, and use a separate wad for each color, and just approach it like shading, as in a piece of artwork. I used to be a graphic artist and I did a lot of airbrush work back in the day, so that kind of informs my approach. I can't really describe a "by-the-numbers" procedure, because it's all kind of intuitive for me. But whenever I do this, I buy a couple pieces of the same wood to experiment on before I do anything to the body.

These dyes can be diluted with either water or alcohol, or they can be used straight out of the bottle. When I did the Eclipse, I diluted the dyes with alcohol about 1:1 ratio. A little less alcohol when I got closer to the edges. With this body, I just used the dye straight out of the bottle. I don't think I'll do that again, though, because the pigment can build up kinda thick and give you problems when it comes to putting a clear-coat on it later.

Before you decide on what you're going to dilute the dye with, you should consider what you're going to finish the body with. If you use water, then water-based poly will disturb the dye, and oil-based poly or a lacquer should be used. If you use alcohol, then a water based poly should be used. I don't know about Tru-Oil, as I haven't had any for a while and it's banned in California (don't worry, I found out how to make my own! ).

When you use the dye straight, it seems like everything disturbs the dye... Which I will give more detail on in my next installment.

I don't know if that came even close to explaining exactly how I achieved the blend, but all I can say is don't be afraid to try it out. If you mess it up that bad, you can always sand it back and do it over.

[fullonshred]

I'm loving it so far Mossy......

[tobijohn]

Ed, I'm always in awe of your work. I would love a CSB semi-hollow but other than the usual cheap Chinese stuff which so far I've successfully managed to swear off, the only one I've ever seen is a Hohner Very Thin currently on eBay. Spraying a burst I always considered a little daunting but the stuff you're using on this seems very forgiving. I think I'm going to keep an eye out for a 335 style kit and just coat-tail the finishing on this build...

[Tiga]

Wow - very nice sir (as always)! Makes me want to try dyes next, something in butterscotch blonde I think. Can't wait to see the finished product!

[Mossman]

Wow - very nice sir (as always)! Makes me want to try dyes next, something in butterscotch blonde I think. Can't wait to see the finished product!

I'm loving it so far Mossy......

Ed, I'm always in awe of your work. I would love a CSB semi-hollow but other than the usual cheap Chinese stuff which so far I've successfully managed to swear off, the only one I've ever seen is a Hohner Very Thin currently on eBay. Spraying a burst I always considered a little daunting but the stuff you're using on this seems very forgiving. I think I'm going to keep an eye out for a 335 style kit and just coat-tail the finishing on this build...

Thanks guys. I wish I had tried doing bursts with dyes a lot sooner, but I was always under the impression that a real gradient burst was unachievable by applying dyes by hand, but it turns out that I just watched a lot of YouTube videos by people who weren't very good at it.

It wasn't until watching some videos by "Big D Guitars" that I realized that it is possible to get a "sprayed-on" burst effect with dyes. I would recommend checking out some of his videos.

It really is "dummy-proof" too. You can always go back if you don't like it.

[nomadh]

Amazing looks like the upscale warmer version of my squier std csb. Already the best looking of the squiers iirc.

[sabasgr68]

Great job so far, Ed. Looks great! Definitely I like warmer finishes on guitars.

Neck is 21 or 22 frets?

[Mossman]

Ok, so after a long hiatus on this project, I've resumed the finishing process. I ran into a bit of a problem with the dyes. The last time I used these dyes (when I did the finish on the Eclipse), I diluted them with alcohol, but this time, I used them full-strength, straight out of the bottle. This was not a problem on the top and back of the guitar, but around the edges, I had built up a lot of the "Oxblood" dye to get it as dark as I wanted it, and it took a very long time to dry! I basically just hung it in my bedroom closet and forgot about it for a while.

Once it had gotten to the point where I wasn't picking up much red anymore when I wiped a rag along the edge of the body, I began laying down light coats of polyurethane around the edges to seal it, and then sprayed the rest of the body. I'm kind of regretting using poly instead of an oil finish now. It changed the colors considerably, and I lost a lot of that gradient blend. It still looks good, and I was actually pleased with it at first, but comparing it to the earlier photos I took right after I did the burst, I realized that it looks quite different from what I started out with, and I prefer the way it looked before I sprayed it.

I'm still struggling to capture photos with accurate colors (I think it's the light sources I'm using). The reds tend to over-saturate, and even over-power the darker colors (it's actually darker around the perimeter of the body in real life). I sprayed a number of coats of poly (I always lose count. I just stop when I think it's "enough"), and It's been hanging for a couple of weeks, so I think I'll get to wet-sanding and buffing it this weekend.

Sunking1.jpg

sunking2.jpg

[tobijohn]

It still looks damn good. As for using an oil rather than poly for the final clear coat, is it even possible to get a high gloss finish with oil?

[Mossman]

It still looks damn good. As for using an oil rather than poly for the final clear coat, is it even possible to get a high gloss finish with oil?

Thanks, John... With Tru-Oil you can make it glossy. I finished my Mahogany Telecaster completely in Tru-Oil. I wanted to still see and feel the grain of the wood, so I didn't go too thick, but it's got some gloss to it:

close-up grain r.JPG

Especially on the sides. I had to double-down on the number of coats to fill the end-grain.

3 body top edge r.JPG

5 flame edge r.JPG

4 laid back r.JPG

8 full vert right light r.JPG

I've done a few necks in Tru-oil too, and I always go full gloss on the front of the headstock. It's not quite as glassy as poly/lacquer, but you can get it up to a nice shine:

headstock gloss.JPG

However, if I had this to do over again, my goal would not be a gloss finish. I'd want more of a dull, satiny sheen, like Tung Oil, or something like it. I'm not exactly sure how it would interact with the dyes.

Actually, if I had this to do over again, I would dilute the dyes with alcohol, like I did the first time, so I wouldn't have to worry about disturbing them... or wait a long-ass time for the thick dye around the edges to dry. Part of the reason why I felt like I had to spray this poly in the first place was because I was afraid if I wiped anything on the sides, it would reactivate the dye and move it around.

[SamIV]

I like the way the final turned out. Looks very natural. And it’s a plain top to boot. I have used Keeda dyes before with the same results. Fairly easy for a novice like myself. I need to work on my top coats though. I have used wipe on ploy with fairly good results. Again, that guitar looks very nice.

[Partscaster]

That is so beautiful.

I have used some USA Custom strat bridges and they were nice. I bet their pickups sound nice.
(edit: I think the bridges I used were made by "True Custom Shop" a reverb MIJ parts seller,..not "USA Custom")

I cant get over how rich and old looking that sunburst is.

I like the idea of the SunKing headstock. Looks like you can do it. Even a water-slide decal of good sun with some matching stain would be more than "Fender". Although, the body already elevates the guitar. You could always wait and do some tests on maple planks. Take it slow.

[ILuvTeles]

Looks gorgeous!

Is it Angelus Leather Dye that you are using?

[nomadh]

Then I added some "Oxblood". I didn't want to go completely black around the edges, but I wanted to go a little darker on the perimeter than the Fender burst:


strat amber red ox dye.JPG


Then after much blending....


strat burst dye finish.jpg


strat dye burst 2.jpg


nstrat dye lower bout.JPG


nstrat dye upper horn.JPG

If you made a video of you doing this I would watch.

[tobijohn]

Don't you have a CSB finish project going on too?

[jtcnj]

That came out great!
I get what you said about losing some of the blend contrast, but still it looks great.
You could certainly get by with a Pee Wee Herman " I meant to do that"!!

[Mossman]

Thanks to everybody for all your kind words and reactions! Y'all blew up my notifications box!

I like the way the final turned out. Looks very natural. And it’s a plain top to boot. I have used Keeda dyes before with the same results. Fairly easy for a novice like myself. I need to work on my top coats though. I have used wipe on ploy with fairly good results. Again, that guitar looks very nice.

Thanks Sam... The first time I did a dye finish, it was a toss up between Keda and Angelus, and I had heard that the Keda dyes had a bad odor to them, so I went with Angelus (does it really stink that bad?).

I think the experience working with both is probably about the same. Before I tried working with dyes, I thought it would be hard to control, like painting with water colors, but nothing that you do has to be permanent. I was a little timid the first time, but this time I was pretty fearless.

That came out great!
I get what you said about losing some of the blend contrast, but still it looks great.
You could certainly get by with a Pee Wee Herman " I meant to do that"!!

Thank You!

Yeah, the red kinda spread out a bit, which you can't even tell from those pics... it just looks all orange. It actually look darker in person. I'm still going to try to take some better photos with more accurate colors. I've tried a couple of different types of lights, and they both make the orange and yellow pop too much and wash out the darker colors.

But to quote the late Bob Ross: "In art, there are no mistakes. Only happy accidents".

Or Thelonious Monk: "I don't believe this instrument has any 'wrong notes'".

Don't you have a CSB finish project going on too?

Nooooo... I think there's enough CSB in the world.

If you made a video of you doing this I would watch.

Thanks Damon! Maybe I will make a video the next time I do this.

Looks gorgeous!

Is it Angelus Leather Dye that you are using?

Thanks man. Yeah, it's Angelus. Have you used it?

That is so beautiful.

I have used some USA Custom strat bridges and they were nice. I bet their pickups sound nice.
(edit: I think the bridges I used were made by "True Custom Shop" a reverb MIJ parts seller,..not "USA Custom")

I cant get over how rich and old looking that sunburst is.

I like the idea of the SunKing headstock. Looks like you can do it. Even a water-slide decal of good sun with some matching stain would be more than "Fender". Although, the body already elevates the guitar. You could always wait and do some tests on maple planks. Take it slow.

Wow, thank you so much!

Yeah, I should have said: "not to be confused with True Custom Shop" in that post. I got them confused myself, at first.

I'm not timid about putting a decal on the headstock... I've done lots of 'em!

kingcaster headstock.jpg

BB25.jpg

fs headstock 25.JPG

WHHSEdit1S.jpg

7 eclipse hs red.jpg

SG Jag headstock ang.JPG

Earth hs 2.jpg

fretless headstock tuners.JPG

10 headstock front r.JPG

57 p headstock 1.JPG

What I am timid about is going through all the work... and the way I do it, it's a lot of work. I'm not content to just slap a decal on there, and cover it with 2 or 3 coats of poly and call it good (or just leave it on the surface). I like to "disappear" the edges of the decal, which means burying it under several coats of poly, and then doing a lot of level sanding. Often times, you get witness lines when you're wet-sanding and have to throw on a couple more coats of poly to get rid of them, and wet-sand again. It's not so bad when you're starting with an unfinished neck, but I'm going to have to sand the finish off the whole face of the headstock (I've never been lucky enough to sand just enough to remove the existing decal without going too far), and then hope the tint matches the rest of the finish when I'm done. Usually, oil-based poly will yellow up enough to match the rest of the neck to my satisfaction, but other times (like with the '70s Fender Jazz Bass neck above), I've had to spray some Stew-Mac tinted lacquer to get it to match, and that's some fiddly business.

[ILuvTeles]

Looks gorgeous!

Is it Angelus Leather Dye that you are using?

Thanks man. Yeah, it's Angelus. Have you used it?

Not yet, but I might give it a try!

[Mossman]

Ok, I took some more photos today under natural light, and these are more color-accurate. I took a ton of pics in various locations in my house, and with different colored backgrounds (I'm always amazed at how much the background color can affect the foreground color), and chose the ones that looked closest to what it looks like "in real life".

strat 1 rs.jpg

strat 2 rs.jpg

And here's a mock-up with the pickguard and hardware.

strat 3 rs.jpg

[SamIV]

Dude, you finished the guitar like a lot try to accomplish without even trying. A pat on the back is necessary.

[sabasgr68]

Great looking finish. I like it very much. Great work, Moss!